Atheist symbol (Photo credit: Wikipedia)
A man came to me to fight a war of reason. He came to do war with the Gospel of peace in Christ Jesus. He presented an argument which, at the surface, appears to be a valid questioning. He asked, “How is it that your God will consign millions of people to hell simply because they worship Him under different names and ways of worship?” In his question he assumes that those people worship the Living God. And he assumes that his answer has a perfect right to be asked. There is a difference between ignorant worship of what is false, and worship filled with understanding by the Holy Spirit of God in Christ Jesus. And he assumes that their earnest ignorance is equal with innocence. And he assumes that his lips have a right to be heard, and his ears deserve to hear the answer.
While we talked I found the only answer I could give him was that he was being arrogant, full of pride and pomp. He did not approach me to understand but to tear down and destroy. But now with reflection, prayer, and a searching out of the matter, I have come to understand the answer with clarity.
We read Abraham’s words: “Will not the judge of the whole earth do what is right?” When God judges a man fit for the kingdom of heaven He does so by His eternal wisdom and understanding. With humility, we leave such judgments of ignorant men to the wisdom and understanding of God. Who are we to know the answer to a question that should never be asked without humility? Regardless the answer God might give for any one man of ignorance, we can be sure that there is an innocent ignorance. And there is also a proud ignorance; that which a man holds dearer than the wisdom of God (arrogance). Which do you determine will find favor with the Lord of Life?
It is folly which judges the Most High God in His Holy ways. It is rebellion, hatred, envy, greed, lust, and an unholy madness to call the Lord of Life to judgment by our own limited understanding. Who are we to know what is right? God saw fit to present His Son with Greatness. Man is part of that Glorification for God’s Son, in that God allowed us to kill Jesus. And should we then judge His decision?
The one who asks such things, for the sake of self-justification, is not looking for what is good or right. That one is looking to find fault in the God of eternity, and to do harm to God’s people.
Had he been looking for righteousness the question would not have been spoken. There would have been humility and a willingness to understand what has been given to man to know. There would have appeared a desire to know the basic things of Jesus. He would have earnestly desired to know if worshiping Jesus produced that “something better” that the worshipers of false gods could not find.
Had there been a sincere concern for the state of those who do not know the Lord Jesus, he would have been asking for help to come to know the God we serve, so that he too could help them avoid certain death. Instead, he used the hapless unbelievers to make an accusation toward Jesus. His folly was perceived, and is now made plain.
He had not grasped the basic concept of The Holy God. That man did not consider that God has always been active in the affairs of man. He assumed that invisible is equal to ineffective. How then would he grasp what follows? All men are without excuse and steeped in wickedness. If they did not know this there would be no religions on the face of the earth. But there is a great variety of religions. So we see that men know they are full of fault and we see them attempt to right their plight. The one who accuses is a religion and a god in his own mind. And he will be shown for what he has allowed himself to become and continue becoming.
All men come from various backgrounds and traditions. And they are quite able to see the “fruit” of what they are being taught. And every one of them, if they were honest, could point to a meager harvest from their labors. It is they who allow themselves to be fooled into a sleep of false religion. For every man perceives his own short comings. Even in society and among the things of this world, every man can see the destruction he brings by virtue of what is within him. There is, bottom line, an awareness is present, that we have not attained a clear conscience. We perceive that a clean conscience will produce a radically different man. Yet they continue in their way without considering the end result of false religion. All their life they cry out to things that do not produce what they are looking for. But for fear of rejection and comfort they continue in their way. This is a testing of the heart for all men. And, rest assured, God is watching to see who will admit their folly and lift their hands in despair. This is true of every false way, and it is true even of Christians. It is not just the false religions which will end in utter destruction. We are told, and it is plain to see, that many who consider themselves Christians walk through their lives as enemies of the Cross of Christ.
You who judge the validity of Jesus’ claims are in a false religion of your own making. It belongs to you and it is false. You accuse without knowledge. You lift up your voice to condemn the God who made you. And you will certainly answer for your self-made plight of folly. There is an emptiness of humility in the accuser’s words. There is a lack of wisdom in his way. Instead of asking, “What must I do to be saved?” He accuses Righteousness because he himself is full to over flowing with wicked thoughts and desires. No accuser will not stand on the day when The Righteous One calls men to account for their lives and words. For you turn away from every possible help today. You scoff at God. You deny His right to judge. And He will judge all men regardless of their recognition of His Holy Court
I will add this final point. Today has been given to man to prove his heart to the Living God. Men have been saying that the coming judgment will divide those who have done “mostly right” from those who have done little or no righteous things. How absolutely false this is. None of man’s righteous acts, those things done without the leading of the Spirit of God, will enter into the pleasure of the Most High God. The pride of man will be crushed. And only faith in Jesus, born in humility, will be rendered a favorable decision.
If you want to secure a knowledge of safety, do so now by accepting the message of the Gospel of God in Jesus. He will come to you and show you how to please His Father. There is no other way to prepare for the coming judgment of all men. God has spoken it on an oath He took by His own Glory.
Words From There 
You call upon other Christians and those of other religions to know the Truth simply by examining the results of their religion – that they should reject the religion of their upbringing because they know (without instruction) that what they believe must be wrong and embrace the God you have come to know.
Do you think that the act of struggling to defend a God who would allow billions of human souls to be tortured for all eternity might be part of the process of realizing the unpleasent results of your own religion and coming to know a different Truth?
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If what I promote in Jesus is simply words carried from generation to generation, I would agree with you. Remember in the post I mentioned that the man should have asked the question, “Does Christianity work as men say it does” ( a paraphrase)?
I know the Living God through Jesus. It is not religion. It is a living relationship with the Living God. This where most go wrong in their judgment of Christianity. They think it is nothing more than words and the resulting religion.
The religion we adopt is a direct result of a live interaction with the Holy God of eternity.
Now you’re likely to ask me to prove it. I will respond, believe in the Lord Jesus, turn all you are over to Him, seek His face with a dilligent and willing heart, and you will know the proof of it.
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Nope – you don’t need to be compelled to prove it to me. If you acknowledge that the reason you believe is not due to observation – but introspection (what you would characterize as interaction with God) – then what is there to discuss?
My problem general lies with what I see as destructive theology. We could discuss whether or not your beliefs have problematic consequences; but discussing whether or not they are true doesn’t make much sense if you’ve already acknowledged that the evidence either does not exist or is unneeded for you to make your conclusion.
I suspect that even if I presented observational evidence to the contrary of any specific belief you have; you would simply deny it or treat it as a mystery. So, what’s the point of going down that road?
Your belief system seems to be tied to the consequences of that belief; not to the evidence or independently verifiable validity of it.
Choosing to believe that which produces the desired results of having belief doesn’t seem that terrible, really, as long as you are honest about that.
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Obviously I would differ with your approach. And, you’re right, since you don’t believe personally it would be a worthless conversation. The entire reason for the article was a man who thought he could destroy. At least you’re willing to allow.
Conssequences, however are a very valid reason for believing something. No one has seen an electron. In fact when I studied electronics I was told, rightly, that the entire structure of electronics was nothing but an theory. However, this theory seems to work just fine when I flip the light switch. I believe in the theory of electronics because the consequences of my action produces the desired and expected result.
What the article points out is, again, that Jesus does remove the guilty conscience. And once free of guilt I am free to live according to what is right and Holy. I may struggle with my sinful nature from time to time. But the freedom is what is key to Christianity; as opposed to all other forms of approach taken to appeasing the God who made all that is. The result is a religion which is a spawn of this believing “salvation” from sin and death. And that religion is directly affected by the leading of the God who now makes Himself heard to me in various ways.
If it were a lie, I assure you, this man would tell you. I’ve been a bit of a hard nosed searcher of lies. I found plenty in what is called Christianity. And I wasn’t ashamed to point them out.
If true Christians have found the light switch to God, and it is true and reliable, why not entertain the prospect yourself? It would, of course, mean that you would have to lay aside your own intelligence. But in exchange we receive the intelligence of God Himself. It is the pride of man which lays at the center of the Gospel. But if you are willing to receive immeasureably more than what you currently have, He will receive you. His promise is for all men, regardless their origin among men. Rebellion is the target. And this means rebellion in absolutely every form. Humility is the end result we are striving for. And none of us, even the greatest among us, will reach that goal completely in this life. If that is the case of those who believe and are receiving this amazing and wonderful gift from God, what will be the case for those who do not even try? We all will appear before Him in due time (Even a time that God Himself has commanded for every man). Why risk a bad report from His Holy lips? Your eyes are reading what is able to release you into something far greater than what any mind on earth is able to construct from what is seen.
If what He has given me were only words, I would not say anything to you, good or bad. I would be like you suppose, simply a man who imagines that he has found some answer but is unable to prove it. He is the answer, this Jesus. He is actively involved in every man’s life. But the gifts of joy, a clean conscience, confidence before His Father, and a willingness to serve Him, are a direct result of humbling ourselves before the message we hear and letting Him become Lord of our every desire.
Don’t you find it curious that this message is directed at the very center of man’s pride? And wouldn’t we expect that, if God were real, He would target the very things that keep us from Him? If I look at what kept me from Him I see pride and rebellion in every possible form. Once I laid that down and accepted what He said, the presence of the Lord appeared within me and has turned from a spark of understanding to a raging bon fire of hope, obedience to what is true, and actions and thoughts which do not make themselves available to punishment.
Don’t reply to this here. Give it some time to consider privately. Once you’ve responded here, you mark out a line publicly. Pride then has a reason to stand all the stronger. And your chance for consideration becomes immediately limited. Your response is not to me or to any other man. It is to the invisible Living God, and will be born of simple faith in a very private place.
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I already know where that road leads for me. That is my point. Even by rejecting the idea that observation of repeatable verifiable, most likely, things is the best source for believing – that actually being convinced is the best avenue for deciding what to believe and embracing the idea that one should simply consciously decide what to believe based on what gives good results in their life (ironically a form of hedonism); Christianity utterly fails for me.
What I am open to is the consistency of someone admitting that they decide to believe based on the outcome of that belief and not on actual evidence that they might be convinced. I find that refreshing because so many Christians and people of other faiths are dishonest about our observations of the natural world, will accuse scientists and others of being part of some conspiracy or what-have-you, in defense of their faith. You instead, seem introspective enough to know that what appears to be the case simply doesn’t matter to you. You decide what to believe based on what you think will make you feel good and do good; and use the good outcome to support the idea that your belief is a greater Truth.
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I understand that you have ventured into the “realm” of Christianity and found it unworthy of further searching. That is your choice.
I would caution you, however. You use the term “. . make you feel good and do good. . . ” This is the obvious obversation of someone who has not found what I speak of as of value enough to penetrate the surface. It is not “feeling” or even doing that Christ offers. In fact, feeling good is relatively non-existant in real Christianity. It is a life of dicipline which attacks the very desires that make me feel good. As for doing good, we do the will of the Father in Heaven, and that by the leading of the Spirit of God. What good we do is rarely seen as such. This is why we are attacked often by some “do gooders” who opperate out of selfish motives and social norms.
I appreciate your reply. And you have my sincere desire that another day might provide a clearer glimpse as to the reality of “The Way” of Christ Jesus.
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Just a clarification so that I’m not misunderstood. I am not using the term “hedonism” to refer to the way it is commonly used or even the phrase “feel good” the way it is commonly used. I am using them in the general sense.
All those things about “freedom from guilt” and various other positive aspects you have mentioned up until now, I place firmly in a “feel good” category. Not feeling confused = feels good. Feeling loved = feels good. Feeling forgiven = feels good. Lack of fear of death = feels good.
What you might characterize as a Living God working inside of you to convict you of His eternal grace (and what-not) – I would characterize as a feeling.
You have asserted a choice in what you believe. I have never been able to perform that psychological trick. I am either convinced or I am not. I cannot decide to believe that I am not typing on a computer right now, for example.
I was for a long time, completely and utterly convinced of the Truth of the Bible – to actually be convinced of such disturbing and horrible things; conflated with father-like love and sense of worth and community – does not lead to positive results. It leads to psychological damage, irrational fears, crushing guilt due to a burden for souls, etc.
I didn’t have a choice at the time – I was convinced. Once I realized that there was no good evidence that I should be compelled to accept this worldview, the only thing stopping me from making a break from it completely was terror. The moment that I admitted to myself that I was not convinced – that I no longer believed – was one of the most beautiful and freeing moments of my life. I never understood what people meant by a “weight being lifted off their shoulders” until that moment. It was a great peace and relief. I am not going back.
What sort of “good” belief would have you defending the eternal torture of billions of people while using the fear of a “bad report” from an unseen entity in order to convince me? Think about eternal torture – by it’s permanence worse than ANYTHING life on earth has to offer. I would make a list just to bring my point home but I’ll just let you think of your own. I have no idea how anyone with a healthy amount of empathy could emotionally handle internalizing that world view without psychological trauma.
If you base your belief on the evidence it fails. If you base your belief on a good personal result it fails – for me.
I have been told – and I refuse to discount the experiences of others – that many people find great comfort in a belief in the Christian Biblical God and the mainstream theology surrounding that belief. I seriously have no idea how anyone could find that comforting. A belief in an eternal life, the power of prayer, being compelled to do good and a feeling of importance – I can wrap my head around to some degree. However, these “good” outcomes are overshadowed by anxiety concerning the souls of others, the feeling of rejection and guilt when false hope is not realized, the dangers of mis/using the Bible to justify otherwise unjustifiable behavior and the bizarre hubris/humility convolution that comes from the idea that you are completely worthless but have been cleansed by God (unlike others).
Shoving evidence completely aside – and only looking at the results of this belief; Shoving the concept of being convinced aside – and allowing the possibility of consciously deciding belief; even then, I do not understand why anyone would inflict a Christian worldview on themselves in the absence of desperation and fear. I don’t understand what sort of person would truly realize a positive result from it; if the belief is actually internalized.
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In the end of your confession I see one word that stood out clearly, “Understand”. At least you are honest in your approach. But that lack of understanding is like a threshold in the door. You came up to the door but did not enter. Had you made more steps you would have encountered that “understanding” you now lack. What I am saying is that your confession is just like that of billions of others. And it is not remarkable, though, again, it is at least earnest.
Now you appear to have locked yourself away from that threshold of understanding. Such things are left as a choice for all men. And many share your “releasing failure”.
It is, indeed, a great release to forsake the Gospel. And the trip back into the darkness of understand can be made without much perceived loss. Once reunited with those of the same mind, a man will find plenty of solace. But the threshold remains where God placed it. He has done an amazing work to test the hearts of men. And He has kept certain understandings just out of reach of those who refuse to believe.
I am not saying this to condemn you to hell. I am simply stating the obvious. Your confession to me is revealing, and I thank you for it. But your true confession has already been logged against you by the Most High God.
You and I are but men who travel this “place of testing” at the same moment. Our paths crossed. But I see you are intent in remaining in the place to which you returned. I, on the other hand, will continue in “The Way”. I desire you no ill will. And I think it would be wise of both of us to part company now. We belong to distinctly different lands. Perhaps He will have mercy on you and allow you that perverbial second chance.
By His Grace.
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